SUBvert Magazine » Music

Peter Hook, Joy Division & New Order Legend On Keeping control of your career & creative freedom

Angel — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:00:08 +0000

Are you fed up of working in an unfulfilling job, being told what to do by a boss who doesn’t appreciate you? Do you want to pursue a creative career and work with people who share your vision? That’s exactly how Peter Hook felt when he decided to form a band called Joy Division. Hooky also realized that you can keep control and publish your creative work without signing away your rights…

Joy Division, inspired by Do It Yourself punk.

Peter Hook made his success as a prominent member of legendary band Joy Division who developed a sound and style that defined the post-punk movement of the late 1970s. Joy Division has influenced scores of musicians including Moby, U2, The Killers, The Charlatans and Mogwai. Hooky had no formal musical training. But his success stemmed from; hard work, determination and a burning ambition to succeed on his terms.

Peter, your journey has been epic to say the least! So let’s start at the beginning. How did you get together to form Joy Division?

In the summer of 1977 I had a really shit job. I was working hard all week and going out at the weekends. At the time music wasn’t a very big part of my life, but I used to read the music papers and I just started reading about Punk. It really interested and excited me. Then The Sex Pistols played in Manchester at the Lesser Free Trade Hall. My mates and I, all went along and that was it. That very evening, we decided we were going to be Punks and form a band.

Sex Pistols at the Lesser Freetrade Hall. Illustration by Jed Collins

It seems naive to me now because I didn’t particularly think about music. We didn’t consider that we would have to buy instruments, learn how to play, form a group and start performing. It just came from seeing the Sex Pistols perform and going “Come on, right we’re in a group now! Yeah!”.

At the start none of you could play any instruments, so how did you go about learning and developing your skill?

Bernard had a guitar, so I had to play the bass. It was that easy. It was a complete process of elimination. I bought a book called “Palmer-Hughes Book of Rock & Roll Bass Guitar”. However, it was pretty shit. So we just started playing. The thing about performing in a group is that one rehearsal is generally worth 10 of you playing on your own. The quicker you learned the better. Because you wanted to take advantage of the things that were being offered to you, like all the gig opportunities.

Illustration by Jed Collins

So you learned from necessity. But you went beyond this and actually mastered the bass guitar. How did that feel?

I always think of incredible musicians as people like Johnny Marr, who started playing the guitar when he was seven. It’s quite unusual to find someone who doesn’t start playing until they’re twenty one, but who ends up playing in two hugely important groups in the history of music.

You’re famous for playing the bass in a very unusual manner. How did you develop your style?

I didn’t set out to be different, a lot of it wasn’t planned, the style just evolved the more I played. Personally, I think if you write and perform great music it’s impossible to fuck it up. Because great music will always live on, whether you publicise it in a national newspaper or not.

So going back to the early days, how did you feel when you performed for the first time?

I can recall getting ready for it, but I don’t remember the rest of it at all. I was extremely frightened. I can’t even remember coming off stage! However, it’s a great thing that first performance. The rest of your career you find yourself chasing after that excitement. It’s like your first drink or your first sexual experience. But you’re never going to capture that feeling you had at the very first one.

Angel and Hooky. Photo by Tash Willcocks

It’s also a confidence thing. I did a ‘Question & Answer’ session in Canada for the documentary film about Joy Division called “Control”. This kid was asking questions and he said to me “Can you tell me why for 30 years of your career, the first 15 years you never said anything and then for the last 15 you wouldn’t shut up!?” I went over and punched the fucker. But he does have a valid point. I think the thing is, everything changes. So for the first 15 years I’d say I wasn’t very confident, and for the last 15 I was.

How did you come to work with the legendary entrepreneur and record producer Tony Wilson?

I’d seen him around before, we all went to the same concerts. He looked like he was from another planet, he dressed differently to anybody I’ve ever met. Tony had started putting on concerts in the Russell Club and he asked us to perform there for a while. He then decided to make a four-group compilation record and he invited us to record two tracks.

Peter Saville’s designs defined the look of the band. Copyright Peter Saville

After that, we were looking for a proper record deal, one where somebody would actually give us money. But Rob Gretton our manager decided it would be better to keep control. He wanted to keep it based in Manchester and for us to sign with Factory records, which was Tony Wilson and Alan Erasmus’ label. Rob was impressed with Tony’s ideas, we were just kids so we didn’t know any better.

From left to right: Peter Saville, Tony Wilson and Alan Erasmus. Copyright Kevin Cummins

I don’t think we had the vision to think about the business side of being in a band. But as a manager, Rob had the foresight to realize: “Right I can really do something different with this band and we can still keep control”. Because the thing that appealed to me about Punk was that it was all about doing things your own way and not compromising. Getting what you believe in and pushing it as far as you could. Not adhering to any strict rules and no one telling you what to do.

This was quite a new way of thinking, especially for the music industry. What was the benefit of working for an independent label that operated in such an unconventional manner?

The great thing about signing to Factory Records was that no one told us what to do, there was no planning at all. If we finished the track Tony would listen to it and go “Nice, we’ll record that and put it out next week”. It wasn’t like “Here’s a calendar for next year, we can’t clash with “Girls Aloud” or any major bands, and we’ve got to go on tour after”. Most record companies would never release a single if the band haven’t got an album ready and they haven’t got a tour planned.

Tony Wilson and Peter Saville. Photo by Danny North

Tell us about your first time in a recording studio?

We were very overawed, excited, and out of our comfort zone, so we were scared. I was very lucky as a musician to have a producer like Martin Hannett. He taught us to look beyond a song, to give things depth and time that lasted and things like that. Even though the guy was extremely difficult to work with, he did give us a gift that I’ve used personally for years and years.

So given the creative freedom you got from Factory Records how long did it take for Joy Division to gain popularity?

That’s an interesting question. As Joy Division we were playing the same songs to no one, and then six months later we were playing the same songs to thousands of people, so it’s difficult to judge where it actually happened. It just grew through us playing and establishing ourselves as a live group. I remember the first time we played London we had to chip in for petrol, and we didn’t even get any money off the door because no one came. There were only seven people in the whole place! I don’t think that you can really bypass that. But as long as you put on a great performance for those that did turn up, then it’s great.

Joy Division on the road. Illustration by Jed Collins

Did you enjoy going on tour in the early days?

We didn’t tour for a while, not like bands today who tour straightaway. We were still working and just playing odd dates whenever we could get them. It’s a different industry now. We grew at a much slower rate than a lot of groups today. They just go from nothing to hundreds of gigs. We had to work it around our day jobs and that’s what paid for us to tour.

Did you feel that you benefited more from doing it that way?

I think it kept us more grounded and a bit more realistic. But there were a lot of things that kept us down to earth. We didn’t really start making money until we’d been in the group nine or ten years. Everybody thought just because we co owned the Hacienda (nightclub) that we were loaded. In fact it was the opposite. Because we had the Hacienda, that’s the reason we didn’t have any money! But I do think that it did pay off, we had a level head and weren’t spoiled.

I think things like X-Factor and Pop Idol make the music business look exciting and glamorous. But when you look at it realistically, you’re up at 7.00 am and you’ll do an interview with a major TV station, then there’s a PR event, and then a signing and several personal appearances. It’s completely different to what it seems like on the outside.

But what we did was very different because we rebelled against all of that. I joined a group because I wanted to tell everyone to fuck off and do things my way. To me that was the great thing about being in a group where you’re not being told what to do.

Click here for Part 2 Of This Interview where Peter tells us how he coped with the death of Joy Division lead singer Ian Curtis. He shares advice for upcoming musicians in the Internet age and tells us how he deals with negative reviews and criticism. Plus, don’t miss the truth behind the legendary stories of drugs and violence at the bands world famous club the Hacienda.

Check out Part 2 Now…

Linkin Park’s Mike Shinoda On Dealing With Brutal Criticism & Fighting Tooth And Nail For Your Vision

Angel — Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:35:02 +0000

Do you get defensive when your creative vision is criticized after days of painstaking work? So did Mike Shinoda, who isn’t just a super-successful musician but also an exciting artist. He was kind enough to talk exclusively to SUBvert about his own personal and sometimes painful experiences in the early days of Linkin Park. Read on to discover how you can use Mike’s hard-learned lessons to boost YOUR career…

Why listen to what Mike Shinoda has to say? Because right now, there is a good chance that you are taking career advice from your mates at work, your buddies on twitter and the guy down the pub who played guitar once in the 70s.

Here’s your opportunity to learn from a guy who’s sold over 50 million albums and won two Grammy Awards. He’s a vocalist, songwriter, rapper, plays keyboard and guitar, he’s also a producer and an outstanding artist. If you want to be the best, then learn from the best…

Oyakodon

So, Mike, you’re clearly a dedicated guy who has invested a lot of time into various artistic skills. What’s the most important lesson you’ve learned whilst developing your talent?

One big breakthrough happened in college. I went to Art Center in Pasadena, which is a really fast-paced and competitive school. There was very little social life on campus, because the workload was just so heavy.

We took what we did very seriously…so spending 40 hours on a painting, then putting it up in front of your class to have 30 people critique it was brutal.

As freshmen, most people got really defensive about their work. Then, at some point, I realized that the criticisms that made me the most defensive were usually the ones that were right. It really helped me to enjoy the process of making my work better, by leaving ego at the door during the creative process.

Neuphoria

Having your work critiqued by people is tough, was there ever a time when you struggled to overcome that fear of publishing your work or performing in-front of an audience?

When we released Hybrid Theory. Our first album was painful to make, because it seemed like everyone was trying to tell us to change. They wanted us to be more like this band or that band, and we fought it tooth and nail the entire way.

So, that is to say: we made the album we wanted to make.

But once it came out, it took off surprisingly fast, and we got a lot of criticism for it entering the mainstream so quickly!

We had to overcome a lot of our own fears about what it meant to “sell out,” and realized that we never “sold out” at all—we did what we wanted to do, and people reacted to it in a positive way.

As long as we didn’t compromise our integrity, we could stand behind the record, which is what we did.

Click here for Part 2 Of This Interview where Mike tells us how he developed loyal fans, his views on money and fame and what his top priorities are as a creative person. Plus he recounts the story about a particular band that treated Linkin Park like crap.

Check out Part 2 Now…

Create your own luck – Inspiring Interview with world renowned DJ/Producer/Musician/Actor and Artist Goldie

Angel — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 22:39:24 +0000

Photo by Guillaume Kayacan

Do you ever wonder why other people have more luck than you? Maybe it’s because of what they’re doing behind the scenes. Come back stage and learn about luck from a man whose experienced success in music and art. Discover how role models can help you cut through the crap and what to do to create your own luck.

Goldie has worked with David Bowie, Noel Gallagher and KRS1 plus he has his own record label called “Metalheadz” which has released numerous pioneering tracks. He also starred in the James bond film “The World Is Not Enough” and Guy Ritchie’s “Snatch”. As well as being a much sought after graffiti artist whose artwork is coveted by top DJs.

Hiya Goldie, I’ve read your autobiography “Nine Lives” which I thought was so compelling. The thing that strikes me, is even though many terrible things happened to you as a child, you still managed to turn your life around. You’ve experience success in many different creative industries, how have you done that?

People say to me ‘well your lucky’ and I say ‘listen there’s no such thing as luck’. Luck is chance and circumstance. Taking a chance with that opportunity to create your own luck.

They don’t realize, when they say “your lucky”, that in the past, I’ve stood in New York in the South Bronx freezing my tits off, waiting to meet a guy that can change my fucking life forever. That I sat outside a club, with a dub tape that I’d spent my last thirty quid to record. I put the time in to do those kind of things. And my position in this game is to continue to learn.

Photo by Gus Coral

You mention music, many people will know you for being a DJ and Producer, however, they may not know that your first love was graffiti. So lets go back to where it all began, how did you initially get into art?

I saw subway art, liked it and wanted to do it. I started drawing alphabets and getting really creative. I hung out with some guys called the “Wild Criminals” and just started drawing everywhere I went. Then I saw a couple of graffiti writers called Brim (Fuentes) and Bio (Wilfredo Feliciano) from the TATS CRU in New York. They’re still an active graffiti crew, one of the best in the world. They got me into the REAL side of graffiti. That’s how I learned, from the BEST.

Photo by Gus Coral

How did you develop your skill?

Bio came over, he showed me how to really do letters. He got my sketch books and ripped them up. I literally had to start from fresh. I started to realize the fundamental aspect of graffiti was the letter form. What interested me, was that it grew from a letter form into social commentary very quickly and people began to respect it for its progress.

Photo by Gus Coral

When you look at the construction of the letter form its not dissimilar to technical drawing. If you understand the form that’s 80% of the hard work done. I was driven to be able to do characters, letters, background, the whole thing, which is synonymous with the way I make music. I construct my music as a whole story. The intro, sound, the background, I set the tone. That’s what graffiti always taught me, the whole spherical angle.

It’s also incredible what graffiti has taught the rest of the world in terms of what it can do, for example; Marc Ecko has built a whole empire from employing graffiti techniques. Ecko was to a certain degree a graffiti writer who relied more within his sketch book scenario then everyone else. The hours he put in perfecting his craft have paid off, he’s managed to apply the medium in a way which is now developed into a multi-billion dollar industry.

Were you thinking about the message of your graffiti, as well as how it looked visually?

I was always writing stuff with a message in mind. I was really inspired by early writers like Dondi and Shy 147 they were really ground breaking. They were going into (railway) yards and getting shot at. These were ultimately guys who were getting into deadly situations because they wanted to paint so fucking badly.

Did you learn technical skills from the people around you?

Oh totally. Technically you have to put it down to a social dilemma. If you place me in Miami, in a place that makes gold teeth, and you place me with an air brush and you leave me there for a couple of years something’s gonna happen, by default. Any artist in an environment like that is gonna be in the same position.

Miami going down south taught me sculpture. When you look at micro cosmos sculpture, its gold teeth. Even dentists get amazed at street culture and how they learned how to do gold and grills. There is an art to it, it’s like a miniature sculpture it’s exactly the same process.

Have you always been as ambitious and productive as you are today?

After Miami, I returned the UK via London and I ended up staying with Gus Coral who was kinda like my mentor. He was like my dad and really looked out for me. I didn’t have the rent to pay, so I would paint and do canvases. I’d be doing air brush compressors, I’d be casting gold, making rings and jewelery. This is all in a fucking council flat.

I was in London and was trying to pitch artwork to people. That’s how I really got started. I was pitching artwork to Island Records they were signing different Hip-Hop bands. There was this group called the 11:59. They wanted some designs for an album sleeve and so I put all this artwork together for them.

Artwork by Goldie for 11:59, image courtesy of Gus Coral

I learned a lot along the way. Before I even went to New York I was working in a screen printing factory. I was printing t-shirts and learning how to do screen separations and all that stuff. So I’d kinda done a lot of everything before I was twenty two.

Is that where you got your confidence from learning all these different techniques and skills?

It was more lucrative than wanting to be a drug dealer. I was always socially driven and I was more scared of ending up being stationary. Not doing anything with my life, that scared me more than anything else. I wanted to chase the dream, I had to achieve that.

Once I’d mastered how to make jewelery for instance I stop doing it. The same with airbrush t-shirts. I wanted to learn the craft fully and then move on with something else.

Photo by Gus Coral

What’s been the biggest barriers that you’ve had to overcome in your career?

I don’t know, if I put barriers psychologically in my head then they will be there. But they don’t really exist, what exists is people’s acceptance.

I’m all giving man if you guys accept me. That’s all it is. This is from a kid that struggled to fit in. So that’s reflected in my work. I always felt I was the outside child because I was an orphan for many years. I didn’t feel the same as everyone else so to get people to see my work was a challenge for me.

Many years ago we used to do shows in Levi’s in Oxford Street with all my paintings. But back then you couldn’t even give them away. That was twenty years ago. Now I see my work selling for a lot of money. They even chase us around the country for this stuff. They’re desperate to buy it!

Click here for Part 2 Of This Interview Where Goldie tells us that if he didn’t ask the right questions his career would be over. He also shares with us what he thinks are the three most important things in life. These things are the keys to his success and how he overcomes fear. He also explains the real fears he had to face as a child.

Check out Part 2 Now…

How to adapt and thrive in the changing music industry, Interview with former Guns N’ Roses and Velvet Revolver guitarist Duff McKagan

SUBvert — Wed, 06 May 2009 13:38:49 +0000

Photo by Andrei Zarnoveanu

Legendary rock guitarist Duff McKagan, former member of Guns N’ Roses, is revered by many musicians all over the world for his unique guitar skills. He’s been in the music industry over 25 years, so he knows a thing or two about adapting and moving with the times. Duff invited us backstage to talk exclusively about how to keep up with the rapid changes in music industry to ensure a successful career.

Duff McKagan is the guitarist with supergroup Velvet Revolver and lead vocalist and guitarist for his own solo punk/rock band “Loaded”, plus he spent thirteen years in the hugely successful band Guns N’ Roses. He’s also performed with Lenny Kravitz, Iggy Pop and been in bands with Steve Jones (Sex Pistols), John Taylor (Duran Duran) and Stewart Copeland (Police). Duff also writes a weekly column for Seattle Weekly and a financial report for playboy.

Duff you’ve been in the music industry a very long time and been extremely successful, but what’s been the biggest barrier you’ve had to overcome?

Getting sober. I wouldn’t be alive today otherwise. My pancreas blew up, so my body made up my mind for me. The decision was literally made for me. It really was, and I could have continued using (drugs) after I got out of hospital, but I would have died within a week or two. So that’s the biggest life changing thing I’ve had to deal with. Because when I got out of the hospital I finally said “OK I want to live now how do I do this?”.

Illustration by Olga Shvartsur

I had no fucking idea how to be sober. I remember going to the store the first time and I was shaking. It was as if I was on acid. I remember taking the money out and handing it over and I thought everybody was staring at me. I just couldn’t really deal with anything at that time. I didn’t even know how to do the most basic things. I had to take it from being completely detached from my body to now; being totally comfortable in my own skin.

I know you’re very much into fitness now, so has it gone to the other end of the scale?

I went completely the other way. I started doing martial arts. I became a kick boxer. I got into the best dojo and I started competing with real fighters. When I dive into something whether its alcoholism and drugs, (which I was the fucking world champion) whatever I do, I go for it and dive in and immerse myself in it.

Photo by Carol Rodrigues

What inspired you to do martial arts?

I didn’t know which way to turn and it was another fateful thing that happened to me. I was introduced to this legendary kick boxer who was a very spiritual man. He had been retired from the fight game for a while and he took me in and agreed to teach me. He was only teaching serious fighters, but he took me in and tore me down and built me back up.

“I wasn’t in there to prove that I was macho”

Martial arts isn’t just a sport it’s a way of life. Did you find it helped you emotionally as well?

The sport is such a tiny amount of it. Most people would assume that the biggest fear, is that you are going to get hurt, but by time i got into the ring I was extremely calm. I just looked into the guys eyes and I could read everything that was going on. I was taught all about defense the physical part, but I’d also developed the mental side, so I was at peace within myself and I knew I wasn’t in there to prove that I was macho. I was in there to learn and discover more about myself.

It seems like you have been on a real journey of discovery. Lets go back to when it all started. I’m interested to know how you got into music?

I grew up in the last of eight kids. I was born in 64 so by the time I was cognizant of music, it was probably 1969/70. My older brothers and sisters were pretty hip. They were into a lot of Hendrix, Beatles, Zeppelin and Sly and the Family Stone. Really great bands and there were always lots of instruments around the house. I didn’t know at the time, that you would suppose to take a lesson to learn how to play the guitar. I thought there’s a guitar and I would hear a sound on the stereo, so I’ll just do that on the guitar and make that same noise and that’s how it started for me.

At some point I really got interested in medicine too. I set my mind on being a doctor. I was doing really well even at Elementary School. I was getting all A grades and I was really into it. School was always kinda easy for me, but then Punk Rock started to hit, I was about 13 and I said lets go form a band and go play.

Photo by Carol Rodrigues

It was really something about the primalness of Punk Rock that struck a chord with me, and the first time I heard the Sex Pistols and The Ramones it was like “oh wait this is mine, its not my older brothers or sisters music, its mine”. I started writing songs and performing. I’d play drums in one band, guitar in another and bass in another, and so I was playing in three bands all at once and I was really going for it.

It sounds like you were really dedicated to music so what happened about being a doctor?

Music I loved it, I ate it up you know and then “Prince” hit and on his first four records he plays everything and there I was, a kid who could play drums and lots of other instruments and so he became the man to me, and he still is even to this day. He’s the most creative musical genius there is, he can sing, play guitar and he’s just amazing and he writes awesome songs as well.

So back to medicine, when I started my first band I was like “oh well me being a doctor, nah, its not gonna happen” but I kept that dream alive of academia and I went to school in my thirties.

Illustration by Olga Shvartsur

So you’ve always enjoyed learning?

I loved it. I loved school and somehow I want to continue into a Masters program, because I really love learning. My success was because I loved my art and I applied myself. There’s a lot of people that say “Nah you’re never gonna make it doing that, go to school, blah blah blah” and if I was going to go to school and go down that route, I would have had to really applied myself to that as well.

We didn’t have money for university you know. There were so many fuckin kids and my mom as well. Some of my older brothers and sisters put themselves through University, and you know being from a large family you have to fight your way through. You have to fight your way to the fucking dinner table, so you get use to thinking, ‘Alright I’ve got to do this on my own”.

“I drove around delivering stuff, it wasn’t drugs, but it wasn’t fully legal”

So the business side of being in the band; is that something that you had an interest in?

No. Not initially. I never dreamed I would make any money playing music. That’s not the reason why I got into it.

Money wasn’t your main motivation?

No not at all! When Guns N’ Roses formed and the five of us got together it was like we would be in a room and the moment we struck the first chord we knew we had something. We didn’t know we were going to sell millions of records. We just knew we could create something special and that’s all we really thought about. We just wrote some songs and managed to get a record deal.

How did you go about getting a record deal. Did you get a manager and then approach lots of record companies?

We were kinda anti all of that. We didn’t try looking for a record deal. We had a manager this guy who was absolutely insane.

He found you or you found him?

It was kind of a mutual thing. I worked at this place in Hollywood it was really decrepit; full of Hungarian mafia. I just needed a job as I was starving, so I drove around delivering stuff. It wasn’t drugs, but it wasn’t fully legal and I didn’t ask any fucking questions! as long as I got paid it was cool. There was a guy who worked there and he was absolutely insane and addicted to doing speed balls. He was totally out of his mind. He eventually died from drugs.

Well that dude was our manager and he would bring us like little kids Halloween costumes down to our rehearsal place and he would say, “I’ve bought you guys some new clothes to wear”. He would tell us “You guys are gonna be bigger than the New York Dolls.” and we would think, “Yeah. Alright dude that’s great,”, but he would book us shows. They were the weirdest fucking gigs you’ve ever seen: like playing at a UCL frat party for 30 bucks, but we were cool with that, because all we wanted to do was be out performing.

When did Guns N’ Roses start getting popular?

Guns N’ Roses started getting successful when we started performing at proper clubs. We were pretty smart. It was before the internet and stuff, so we would do like old skool mailing lists and people would sign up and we would mail them out information about our next gig.

How did you get record labels interested in your band?

We just hustled and promoted our gigs by passing out flyers and people started coming out to watch us, because we were something different. Our audience were punkers and metal kids, rockers, chicks and dudes and you know the whole thing. We started selling out clubs and then selling out on multiple nights and then record companies would come to see us.

We thought it was just an opportunity to get free meals, so we kinda dragged it out for as long as we could. Once one record company jumped in, all the rest did, so we were getting free lobster dinners and cocktails. You know, that was pretty cool and we knew all along which company we wanted to go with.

“We were the youth. We knew what was going on”

How did you decide which record company to choose?

Geffin was a little boutique record company and it was small so it wasn’t like, “How am I going to find our guys office?”, they had this building right on sunset and our A & R guy Tom Zutaut who signed us, he now manages a band called McQueen. Well, he really believed in Guns N’ Roses. He was telling us shit like. “You guys are going to be bigger than Zeplin” and we were like “That’s what every A & R guys says to their band, whatever dude we’re just glad you love us”.

We just found some people who were into us for who we were and who weren’t trying to change anything about us. Some record companies we talked to didn’t know what they were talking about. We were the youth. We knew what was going on, they didn’t. They had no idea.

The record companies at the time were finding older producers. An older producer is fine, but you have to be in touch with what’s going on and bring some fresh ideas that the kids don’t know about, but these guys were bringing disco beats, and we were like “what are you talking about?”.

Click here for Part 2 Of This Interview where Duff recounts the tactics Guns N’ Roses employed in order to ensure no one took advantage or ripped them off financially. He reveals the saucy things they now do which were totally taboo before and how they maximize the money they make on tour. Plus don’t miss the story of who freaked out Duff for a whole day and had his knees shaking and voice quivering.

Check out Part 2 Now…

The Charlatans front man Tim Burgess on self publishing, big decisions and being rescued by Ice T.

SUBvert — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 21:08:07 +0000

The Charlatans performing at Ben and Jerry’s festival photo by Jimmy James

We interview The Charlatans lead singer, superstar DJ and style icon Tim Burgess. Who showed SUBvert around his UK studio and talked about how they rose from tragedy to become an international success. Also how self publishing their music has resulted in some of their most satisfying creative work.

The Charlatans have had three number one albums plus three, top ten singles. Tim’s added his vocals to songs by bands such as The Chemical Brothers, Mark Ronson and Peter Hook’s band Freebass. Tim is also friends with The Rolling Stones, and supported the band as a solo artist.

The Charlatans performing at Ben and Jerry’s festival photo by Jimmy James

Life changing decisions

Interview by Angel Greenham

The Charlatans have been going for nearly two decades, that’s a long time in the music industry, have there been any major decisions that have contributed towards your success?

The biggest decision we’ve ever had to make was after Rob Collins [our former keyboard player] died. A friend of ours Jeff Barrett who runs Heavenly Records was doing our press and I telephoned him to say we couldn’t perform with Oasis at Knebworth, as it was two days after Rob’s funeral. Jeff said “No, you’ve got to do it” and I said “How, we don’t have enough people?”, and he told me flat out “You’ve got to do it, or that’s it, the bands finished”.

It was excellent advice and Bobby Gillespie (lead singer with Primal Scream) offered us Martin Duffy (their keyboard player) for the night and he ended up joining the band for 6 months. It was amazing, but also crazy because, on the one hand, we had lost our best mate and he was a really important part of the band, however, Duffy coming in and helping us through the next 6 months was a real blessing.

The Charlatans performing at Ben & Jerry’s Festival photo by Jimmy James

It was very compassionate of Bobby to help you out. You guys made another big decision at the beginning of your career to publish your first single yourselves, why did you decide to go down that route?

It was early on and we’d done a demo tape and we tried to get a deal but no one was really coming forward, so we put it out ourselves. Our Manager’s sister put up the money to get the single out. We were suppose to sell a thousand copies but we ended up selling fifteen thousand, so she got her money back and we got to buy a van.

This was all part of the Manchester scene and a lot of people started showing an interest in us because we had a DIY record out, so the majors were interested as well as a few independent labels. But we chose a record label called Beggars Banquet because they seemed like the people who could actually do it for us. We wanted to be able to sell records all over the world, they could do that, but they were still small enough to actually let us do things the way we wanted to do them, so it was a wise choice really.

Tim performing in Manchester, photo by Nicky McGowan

So you signed with Beggars Banquet because you could do things your way. What were the benefits of working with a record label?

For me it was amazing because we used a guy called Chris Nagle who was the engineer for all the Joy Division records and the first New Order album and a lot of Factory Records stuff. He was Martin Hannett’s right hand guy and Martin was a legendary producer in Manchester. It was a beautiful experience, we went to Strawberry Studios in Stockport to record “Indian Rope”. That’s the studios where Joy Division recorded their debut album “Unknown Pleasures” and it’s famously owned by 10CC so it was a great experience.

Tim performing in Manchester, photo by Nickie McGowan

Chris Nagle was obviously very talented and had worked with some outstanding bands, what was it like working with him?

He would come down to check us out in our rehearsal and stuff like that, generally he was a really great guy with a lot more experience than we had, so we were really happy, he gave us a good sound, it sounded like a first record at the time we were doing it, but I didn’t think we could ever top it, I thought it was the best record I’d ever heard.

Tim performing in Manchester, photo by Nickie McGowan

It sounds like a very positive experience. A lot of people struggle publishing their work in the early stages of their career. Do you ever have any doubts when you’re putting out new material?

I think I’ve got good taste, I can get this weird feeling right inside and it comes from my stomach and it tells me its good. I follow it through the best way I can. I think I’m probably doing that even better these days, it doesn’t have to be a perfect recording, or a brilliant vocal take, it’s all about the vibe and the emotion you get from it. That’s when I don’t care what anyone says because I’ve put my heart and soul into it, I feel proud of it.

“Indian Rope” was a big hit along with a lot of other tracks you released through Beggars Banquet so why did you change labels?

Well, we were actually on Beggars Banquet for quite a long time, that was probably the most successful period, we had three number one albums and we did 6 with them in total. But at the time we felt like a change of scene, its like a relationship with somebody for six years, you think “oh my god do I need something new” and you start to assess the situation and see where to go next.

SUBvert magazine photoshoot at The Charlatans recording studio, photo by Nickie McGowan

So Universal were interested and the first record we did with them was really good, it was a massive hit, then it went downhill from there. The second album with them was “Wonderland” and in my opinion, its not the best record we’ve ever done. Universal were freaked out because we were doing it all ourselves, our own way, in LA, with a producer that we wanted and they didn’t have a say.

So they gave up on us, but they didn’t want to let us go either. It was frustrating being on a label that wouldn’t let us go to anybody else but didn’t want to do anything with us themselves. So we just made a crap record, even though we thought we were being smart, the public thought we’d lost it.

Click here for Part 2 Of This Interview where Tim tells us the story about Ice-T stepping in to save them from a crazy attack. He also gives us his opinion on new technology and how they’ve used it to add extra value for their fans. Plus the true benefit of having complete control of all their decisions.

Check out Part 2 Now…

Readers letter: Musicians are the new starving artists

Paul — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:29:46 +0000

Sam emailed us to say he hopes to be touring with his band and making a living from his creativity soon.

Now, following your creative dreams certainly gets our applause, he’s half way to success already.

But the second paragraph of his email set off the money alarm. (In the last readers letter I pointed out how frequently we often hold conflicting beliefs about money that can really limit our success.)

Here’s what Sam said;

I know musicians are the new starving artist, but I don’t care. This is what I love and I would be more than happy to be playing music in bars for the rest of my life, rather than be rich and famous. But of course the riches would be nice to have, for a rainy day.

This will upset a few people

Now I’m going to tell you something that will upset some people and it will upset them because deep down they know it’s true.

1) Many ’starving artists’ are only starving because they are insecure, lazy, and walk around in their own little dream world.

2) Many ’starving artists’ use art as an excuse to opt out of the commercial world (because it’s tough and involves making something of real value). Instead they choose to live their lives on the charity of others. They do this by actively producing useless crap that nobody wants or needs and calling this self-indulgence “self-expression”.

3) If you identify with the ’starving artist’ as a romantic, alternative lifestyle, that’s exactly what you will end up with. (But there’s nothing romantic about it, you’re just a bum with a hobby.)

Some people would have you believe that we live in a world that doesn’t value art in all it’s different forms. That to truly express yourself you must give in to a life of noble peasantry.

What utter bollocks

An artist has more opportunity to deliver value to the world than at any time in the evolution of the human species.

A million TV channels. A million radio stations, A billion websites. A trillion homes with enough disposable income to buy anything that inspires them.

So why should the creative person starve?

Sure, when you’re starting your journey, it’s going to be an uphill battle. Your dinner might be beans-on-toast for a while. Let’s be honest, you might be living on beans-on-toast for a couple of years whilst you “play music in bars” or whatever your creative equivalent is. That might be an essential part of your journey to develop your skills and get to know what your fans really value.

But that’s no place to aim for, that’s no place to even think about ending up. That’s no final destination.

I can’t emphasize enough how important it is to really think about where you want to end up, to set your sights high and to focus on that destination constantly.

It’s no secret and there’s really nothing metaphysical about it – but whatever you focus on is what you will end up with. It’s just how the human brain works.

A million small decisions

The path for Sam, between his first gig and his final destination is a journey of a million small decisions. Each time he is faced with a decision, the picture he holds in his head, the vision of where he wants to end up, that picture will play a part in the choice he makes.

If his picture of happiness is being famous, that’s where he’ll end up.
If his picture of happiness is riches, that’s what he’ll get.
If his picture of happiness is inspiring millions of people, that’s what he will achieve.
If his picture of happiness is playing in bars, that’s exactly what will happen.

Is it really so bad playing music in a bar?

That all depends on why you’re there;
If you’re music is just a hobby, playing in a bar might be pretty cool.
If you’re building your fan base and developing your skills, a bar might be an essential part of the journey.
If you’re still playing in bars 15 years later, then you’re probably doing something wrong.

You’ve either not developed your own confidence to the level necessary to break out of the bars or you haven’t developed you skills enough to fill a bigger venue or you simply don’t offer enough value to enough people to make them want to come see you.

That’s no place to end up. And unless you have very low expectations of yourself, you won’t be happy there.

Do you believe in your work?

If you believe in your work, if it inspires others, then why oh why would you not want to share that with as many people as possible?

The world is brimming with people looking to be inspired. Why would you want to settle for a couple of dozen drunks who probably didn’t even come to see you?

I beg you to follow this advice

If you’ve found the courage to start your creative journey, don’t sabotage yourself by walking around with a “back-up plan” in your head. Don’t tell the world that you’re off on a journey to conquer Mount Everest, whilst unconsciously telling yourself, you’d actually be satisfied if you just made it to the base camp.

Life is too short to be happy with the mediocre and musicians really aren’t the new starving artists, musicians are the new Kings and Queens.

Many a wise man will tell you that life is not a destination – it’s a journey, and often it’s a series of different journeys, loosely strung together. But as we travel through life, enjoying every moment of the journey, it’s useful to have a destination in mind, those who don’t tend to drift aimlessly. What picture do YOU carry around in your head of your final destination? Is it really worthy of a lifetime of effort or could you set your sights a little higher?

Paul.

PS. Thanks to “Sam” for his letter and for allowing us to share it so that other people might benefit as well. (Names changed to protect the innocent)

Readers letter: No money, no resources, no music!

Paul — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:52:40 +0000

We get a lot of letters asking for advice from people who have been reading our ‘Creative Secrets’ and luckily many of them are similar, after all most of us are struggling with exactly the same problems, even if it doesn’t always feel like that. This is the first in a series of solutions to problems our readers have put to us. If you think that you don’t have the resources you need to get started on achieving your creative dreams you might find this useful.

This is a real letter from a real reader who gracefully agreed to let us share his problem so that others might benefit from our humble opinions. Names have been changed to protect peoples privacy.

Like many people all over the world, Music is what gets me excited.
It’s my lifelong dream to just express myself through the art of music. To express myself & touch the lives of people at the same time. And I want to make music for the love & joy of it, I’m not looking to make loads of money.

Not too long ago I tried to start a band with some friends but time & time again, things keep falling through. I want to sing mostly; and yet I’m often told otherwise. I also want to learn piano too but at the moment I don’t have the money nor the resources to really do what I want. I write, but I don’t know how to sing what I’ve written.

I love music and I want to make music. I just wish I had more resources to really try different things. I understand that nothing good comes easily & that I need to be patient but it’s still quite annoying to know that there isn’t a whole lot I can do for the time being.

Any suggestions as to what might help me to find my muse or to help me get back on my feet with my creativity?

Andrew.

Don’t want no evil money

The first thing that strikes me is the ‘money disclaimer’ which Andrew announces early in his letter “I’m not looking to make loads of money”. I hear this a lot and it’s almost always a cover-up. When someone tells us out of the blue that they don’t want to make money or they don’t care about money a little digging usually reveals one or more of the following;

- they don’t know how to make money
- they are scared of not being able to make a lot of money (scared of failing)
- they have been brought up to believe that actually making a lot of money makes you a bad person (this is very common)
- they are scared of doing the things that they think it will take to make a lot of money, like performing in public to lots of people, or actually mastering their skills beyond the amateur level.

It’s very similar to another disclaimer I’ve heard several people say over the years “I want to get fit but I don’t want to go to a gym because I don’t want to end up looking like a body builder”.

Well guess what, no one goes to a gym, trips over a barbell and comes out looking like a body builder! In just the same way that no one commits to their music, performs on stage once and walks out with a suitcase full of cash.

Money helps us keep score of the value we are delivering

Money is merely a token that we collectively use to make bartering more efficient.

In any situation your earnings will be directly in proportion to;
a) The amount of focus you give to money.
b) The amount of value you deliver to your audience.

If you are truly delivering value as an artist, people will naturally want to reciprocate, they will want to give you something that they value in return. In ye olden days, that might have been a chicken or a bundle of wheat, but some rock star, way-back-when, got sick of being given chickens by his adoring fans and started exchanging CD’s and T-shirts for golden coins.

So, my point isn’t that Andrew should be focusing on making money, more than making music, but he can explore his feelings about money. If money is an issue (and for 99% of the population it is) he can educate himself and remove a few limiting beliefs that could hold him back from the success he wants.

Attitude is everything

At the end of the day, money and resources have NOTHING to do with how successful we are, it’s 99% ATTITUDE and attitude is simply how we choose to think about the world.

Money is nothing but a tool. It can be used to do great good as well as make a mess of your life. And if you have a genuine message to spread, it’s a lot easier to achieve that goal with a pot of gold you can dip into.

It’s also a lot easier to protect ourselves from the fear of failure by saying we don’t want something that is actually very useful. If Andrew mastered his music and he put it out into the world where it did touch people and inspire them, it would most definitely have the potential to earn him a lot of money. Now if he really didn’t want that money, he could still use it in a positive way to change even more lives on an even deeper level.

Do you really not want to make any money?

So my advice to anyone who has a habit of shunning money is, just ask yourself, is it really money that you don’t want. Or is it all the hard work and effort that is required to master your craft?

I don’t own a Learjet

The rest of Andrew’s letter talks about all the other things besides money that he hasn’t got and how all these things that he hasn’t got make him helpless.

Well, that’s pretty much self imposed helplessness.

I don’t own a Learjet, but it doesn’t stop me getting around.

I’ve yet to meet someone who truly had a resource problem. Andrew’s real challenge is his state of mind. If he can change his state of mind, if he can develop his attitude, he might suddenly find himself in a world full of resources.

If you haven’t read the David Horvath Edition yet, I recommend you check it out. David is co-creator of the Uglydolls. He’s experiencing global success and he started off with a few scraps of material and a needle and thread. Literally. It’s a great, true story about starting with no support and no resources.

There are others like you, near you

What I would suggest Andrew do is find other people who are ambitious and who can help him grow and compliment his own musical skills. This is unlikely to be ‘friends’. But there will be people out there, in his location who feel exactly the same way, you just have to put yourself out there and find them. A lot of musicians join lots of different bands before finding the right people that they can make great music with.

Joining a band is just like joining a team or building a company. Doing it with friends isn’t always a good idea. You don’t want people who think and act the same as you, what you need is people who compliment you. There is also nothing to stop you joining more than one band and practicing more than one type of music, there’s an unlimited amount of learning to be done and trust me when I tell you that even world class musicians who have ‘reached the top’ continue to learn and develop their skills through out their lives.

As ‘The Donald’ would say…

As for acquiring any other resource, there is always a way, you just have to focus on the solution, not the problem.

A piano is an expensive piece of equipment, both to buy and to maintain. That’s a problem. But a keyboard isn’t. You can buy a keyboard on eBay for $50 and spend a couple of years learning from the thousands of totally free tutorial videos on YouTube.

When you progress past the basics, you can put some feelers out in your neighborhood, there is always someone with a piano, a school, a church, the teacher down the end of the road. If you can’t afford lessons yet, offer to clean their windows, or mow their lawn. Lots of artists love to pass on their skills, but only to people who demonstrate they really want it and are willing to put the effort in. There are a million ways to find a solution, it just requires the willingness to put yourself out there and not be defeated by a few NO’s.

The truth about success

The truth is, the path to success is littered with a thousand rejections, a thousands NO’s, and years of making-do, whilst enjoying yourself and moving forward. And that’s what it’s all about, setting yourself in motion. Because the more you do, the more you put yourself out there, the more people you will meet who want to help you and the more opportunities you will come across.

Cue the music…

It doesn’t take a lot of resources to get your creative ball rolling, a pen and paper, a stereo, a tape and….

Keep em coming

Thanks again to ‘Andrew’ for letting us share his letter. Let us know if our advice is useful to you all and keep your letters coming, we love to hear from you.

Paul.

Interview with Brandon Boyd – From Incubus to Artist

Paul — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:31:07 +0000

If you’ve ever read our About us page, you might already know that Angel is a big Incubus fan or rather a big Brandon Boyd fan!

I won’t repeat the story, other than to say great music and great art really can change people’s lives and Brandon’s music changed the direction of Angel’s life.

We’re lucky at SUBvert that we only interview people we really like and of course Brandon was at the top of Angels list for some time. When the opportunity arose, we jumped at the chance.

Here’s the result, in the new PDF mag format. We have at least 15 interviews like this lined up with some really cool, successful creative heroes of ours. It was leaked to the Incubus forum a little earlier than we were expecting, but so far the response has been fantastic.

We are opening comments on this one, so please let us know what you think of the article and the new format.

(For FULL SCREEN viewing, click the button in the top right hand corner below)

Click here if you can’t see the magazine above.

How to build a fanbase for your band (featuring Jam With Robina)

SUBvert — Sun, 12 Oct 2008 22:28:23 +0000

Jam with Robina are an acoustic band who in just over two years have built up a strong following of fans, we hook up with them to find out exactly how they’ve gained their fanbase and what they’ve done to keep them happy.

How long has Jam With RoBina been going?

Mark: We started JWR just over 2 years ago, having worked together for 10 years we decided to start a new project as a songwriting duo, something that was an exciting challenge to both of us. Starting out is tough for any band. You’re finding your feet with regards to musical direction and you have limited contacts on the live circuit. We just decided to accept any gig that came our way, and you can take positives from each and every gig you do.

I‘ll never forget the time we played after 2 metal bands in The Maltsters in Pontypridd (Wales). It was for a friends leaving party and for some reason we were put on last, after the loudest bands you could ever imagine! It was one of those defining moments when you look at each other and think “If we can play after that we’ll be able to play after anything”. We had to just get up there and get on with it. If you can picture the scene, the pub was full of hardcore metallers dressed head to toe in black. Then up we step and play our melodic acoustic folk music. What really struck me and will always remain with me is that we had the entire bar tapping/nodding/singing along.

That was a tough and important lesson for us, but we learned so much from the experience! I think for me it showed that music prevails and if you can play your instruments well, whatever the genre, people will pay attention as long as you get up there and give it some.

When you first started the band, were you doing it full time or did you have part time jobs?

Mark: We both still work full time, I work as an engineer and Ro works in animation. There are only so many hours in the day, but we manage to squeeze 25 out of 24 if you know what I mean!

Ro: We’re both quite established in our professions and it’s taken a lot to get where we are today, especially considering we give so much to the band.

You seem to always be performing live how many venues have you actually played?

Mark: We’ve done around 100 gigs as JWR and have probably played in around 80 different venues in South Wales, South West England, London and Italy.

How do you promote your gigs?

Mark: Our music doesn’t follow the current trend of emo/metal bands and in itself can be quite difficult to pigeonhole. That’s what we like about it, it’s something very different but only problem with that is promoters don’t always know what genre to put us under.

Ro: Some of the smaller shows we promote and arrange ourselves. The bigger ones often have promoters on board so we leave it to them, although so far we haven’t really met a promoter who is prepared to put in as much effort as we do.

What other countries have you performed?

Mark: For the last 3 years we’ve visited Italy every August and played a few dates out there. We’re both of Italian origin and our families originate from a village in the north called Bardi. We’re good friends with the bar owners out there and they always welcome us to play. It’s normally a long night with us doing a 30 track set and the party starts at around 9pm and finishes at around 5am!

How have you promoted the band in the media?

Mark: We’ve done a few radio slots such as; BBC Radio Wales, BRFM and GTFM. We’re also featured on a few internet radio stations like “Acoustic Alternative” in Canada. Some of the BBC show recordings are available for download on our myspace so pop along and check them out!

Tell us a bit about the production of your debut album “Visions of a Runic”? How did you decide which producer to use?

Mark: The choice was quite simple, we had little money to fund the project and I was pretty handy at music production. I converted the attic of my house into a recording studio and as such the experience was quite unique.

What was the inspiration for the songs that Steve Rack chose to visually review “Pink Room” and “ELC” (Check out Steve Racks visual review) http://www.subvertmagazine.com

Mark: On the first album the songwriting mostly took 3 different forms; ideas I came up with, ideas Ro came up with, and ideas we worked out in jam sessions together. The songs chosen by Steve for his visual review are a good example of each of these methods.

“Pink Room”: This song came about from a holiday to Sardinia back in Summer 2006. One afternoon we were taking a break from the scorching heat and I started playing some tunes on the guitar. Romano just started humming melodies over the top. I grabbed my camera and recorded the rough ideas whilst we were sitting on the bench (a clip of these original recordings is on the Pink Room EP). We were buzzing at this point as it was the first bit of new material we wrote together as JWR, so we headed to a nearby bar, grabbed a coffee and wrote the lyrics there and then, a song about good times!

“ELC” Ro: Just before performing “E.L.C” at any gig I always explain that the song is about heartbreak and it that goes out to anyone who’s had some form of heartbreak in their lives. The song is a very personal one to me and I won’t reveal what E.L.C stands for.

That aside I can tell you about its origins. I haven’t been played guitar for a long time, maybe 6 years at the most. I was about 21 when I started, about 3 years before we formed Jam with RoBina. I was going through a hard time and I’d been experimenting with the particular chord sequence for a while. The emotions of the song are all real and I felt really fitted with the guitar sequence.

Something you guys do really well is look after your core fans. Can you tell me about how you have gained these fans and how you keep them happy?

Mark: Our fanbase has been generated from numerous sources but mostly it’s through gigging. Another big part of our fanbase is online through our myspace page. The way people listen to music has changed dramatically over the last 5 years, if you’re curious about a band you just jump on myspace and have a listen and hence why we put a lot of effort into a nice looking/sounding website.

We also respond to all the messages and comments we receive as we appreciate every single one we get. It’s nice when someone shows an interest in our music and we honor that by writing back to show our gratitude. Something we feel has gained us fans is our commitment to gigging and the vibe we create during our shows. People like to see a certain level of enthusiasm from a band and always giving your all on stage goes a long way. Whilst our music is quite mellow in places it’s also quite positive and uplifting. I think people pick up a positive vibe when they see us live and that always goes down well. During 2007 we played around 60 shows and as such picked up a lot of fans on the way.

Tell me about your email/newsletter. I really like your approach, how do you get their email addresses and how often do you send out newsletters do you think this is important?

Mark: We generally work on a newsletter when we feel there’s something worth telling our fans about, with no set rule for how long we wait. The idea behind it is to send information in a concise friendly way for people to read. A lot of people are too busy to go around checking websites so by sending them a newsletter with key updates and messages it keeps them up to speed on all things to do with the band.

The response we’ve had from them is amazing as our fans really take note of what’s said and it can often be a more effective way of communicating than website updates.

What has been the bands biggest achievement to date?

Ro: Completing “Visions of Runic”. We did it without any financial support and used money made from gigs to fund it. We put so much into that record, physically, emotionally and financially and we feel the result is a truly organic honest record.

Has your opinion about the music industry changed at all?

Mark: I guess we’ve seen the music industry in a different light, as like any industry, it needs to make money. Whilst the product is something very pure, it seems that making music can be overshadowed by the need for financial gain. As far as JWR are concerned we like to think the music prevails, and for us it’s all about making original expressive music.

Define what success means to you?

Mark: When people mention success I feel it’s important to understand what success means to you. Some people measure success by financial gain but for me it’s more about doing what you love and giving it your all. Should financial gain come with that process then that’s an added bonus.

Something I’ve always known is that music means a lot to me. It is the ultimate form of expression and I find guitar playing to be a form of meditation. I’ll always make music and if other people choose to listen or I can make money from it then great!

Ro: Success to me is when you play and it catches someone’s attention. We love playing and we never hold back when we do so. I think its human nature for people to have an opinion on things and whether its good or bad, if our music or performance got your attention for 5 maybe 10 minutes we’re going to do our utmost to keep your attention. If that happens then I’ll feel like we’ve succeeded.

What’s the most important lesson you have learned so far?

Mark: Trust your instincts. You know if something is right, but it often comes down to whether you can admit it to yourself or not.

What are you future plans?

Mark: At present we’re working on the follow up to Visions of a Runic. We’ve written a load of new material but still have loads more to go. We’re due to start recording towards the end of this year and should be putting out the record early 2009.

Whilst VOAR (Visions of a Runic) was an amazing personal achievement for us both, it was a vital stepping stone which will allows us to make the record we really want to make. Keep your eyes peeled for the next album, it’s gonna be exciting!!!!!

For more info check out

www.myspace.com/jamwithrobina

First time animators get 75,000 people watching their film (Featuring Chogzoo)

SUBvert — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:41:08 +0000

Are you a creative person with an ambition to have the world see your work? if so, read about two young film makers called Chogzoo who got 75,000 people to watch their animation in their first year…

Self portrait by Andrew Jolly and Kyle Webster

But first a visual music review. Chogzoo vs “Mexicolas”

I was so impressed with the animation by Andrew and Kyle (who are the talent behind Chog Zoo), that I invited them to visually review Mexicolas album “X” in their cartoon style.

Chog Zoo – ‘X’ is the debut album from Mexicolas, and straight from the word go we’re painted an impression of what to expect from these guys over the next 13 tracks.

Hailing from Birmingham, Mexicolas manage to succeed where so few have before them. They’ve captured two of the most important ingredients of being a great rock band: A raw edge, and an ability to write great songs.

The combination of these two elements don’t always blend together very well. It’s difficult to write catchy songs whilst retaining a heavy streak at the same time. When we heard the CD, our immediate impression was of something beautiful disguised in a controversial coating. This inspired our entire set of images based on this band. Through first impressions, we conjured up the image of a girl, strikingly beautiful to look at, being portrayed in a way not normally befitting somebody of her nature. This subversion of ideas shines through in the music. You’re not supposed to like it, but you do.

The sound of Mexicolas is hard to describe. There’s definitely a Mexican influence in there, although from the name of the band that’s sure to be obvious. Some of the heavier tunes scream of ‘Queens Of The Stone Age’, but that’s not to say that Mexicolas are a one trick pony. They throw the listener back and forth between ballads and anthems with apparent ease, all the while still clinging on to their signature sound, that of Southern American rock n’ roll.

With this in mind, we pictured gambling, or more specifically dice and cards, something not normally associated with the image of a beautiful young girl. We combined the two to create our interpretation of the message hidden within Mexicolas; A radio friendly pop band that has taken its own genre, bent it over, and kicked its ass”.

Buy Chogzoo’s designs in the SUBvert Tee-store today, don’t delay

We then asked Andrew and Kyle what lessons they have learned about selling their work and how did they get 75,000 people to watch their animation…

Tell us about the first time you sold a piece of work, what was it and how did it feel?

Andrew: It was a shirt for the band Failsafe.

Kyle: Oh yeah. It felt amazing. I was extremely proud of knowing that we’d satisfied a customer.

Andrew: And knowing that people wanted to buy it just made it even better.

How did you decide what to charge?

Kyle: Well the first time we sold a piece we were pretty naive about it. We ended up waiting nearly 6 months for somebody to pay us a fraction of what we should have been charging in the first place.

Andrew: So we checked out a website called The Association Of Illustrators on the recommendation of our manager, and they had examples of what other artists were charging, so we went with that.

What’s the most important decision you have had to make regarding your creative career so far?

Kyle: It didn’t really feel that big of a deal at the time, but the day we got an e-mail inviting us to attend a business course was the day that we officially headed down the road of becoming a real business. Here we are, 9 months later and things are looking up for us. So that was probably the catalyst.

How did you developed your style?

Andrew: I’ve always really loved Eastern animation, Anime and such. Especially the works of Ghibli.

Kyle: I’m inspired mainly by Western animation, particularly comedic stuff, so I’m less focused on the style of the animation, and more focused on what’s funny about the style. We developed our style by taking these two different inspirations and finding the middle ground.

Andrew: Now we pretty much do everything with some similarity. Sometimes it’s difficult to tell which of us has done which part of an animation. We’ve only been working together for around a year, so I guess that’s how long it’s taken to develop our style.

Have you ever had to compromise when working for someone else?

Kyle: Yeah the job we just completed meant we had to compromise our vision quite a bit.

Andrew: But they were our highest paying clients to date, and you’ve got to deliver a satisfying product if you want to get paid.

How do you keep yourself motivated to produce new creative work?

Kyle: You’ve got to be a little insane to even want to try and do the stuff that we do. Long days, even longer nights, slaving away over a computer, working towards something that people might not even appreciate in the end. I guess the motivation comes from actually getting the formula right, and finding that you’ve made something that people care about, and ultimately wanting to do it again.

Andrew: Seeing your ideas come to life is the greatest motivation.

Has you work practice changed from when you first started?

Kyle: When we were creating for ourselves we had very few limitations, one of the main ones being time. We had all the time in the world because we had nobody to answer to, so the concept of the ‘deadline’ was a big change for us.

Andrew: It’s good though. We work well under pressure, and I’d be lying if I said that we aren’t constantly improving because of it.

What has been your greatest creative achievement to date?

Andrew: Probably having 75,000 people watching something that I worked on for nearly a year, and then having the backing of a globally influential company as a result of it.

Define what success is to you?

Andrew: Probably just getting the job done on time, with a happy client that we know is going to come back to us in the future.

Kyle: The secondary function of each piece that we do is to make somebody else want our services, so if we deliver a decent product once, there’s a greater chance that we’ll get future business. That is success to me. Got to keep the wheels turning.

How do you deal with negative criticism?

Andrew: We don’t get any.

Kyle: Ha ha, lies.

Andrew: If we’ve had any negative criticism in the past, it can be difficult at first, and then we just remember that we make art for ourselves and everybody else’s criticisms take second precedence to our own

Kyle: If it’s a client, the criticism usually comes before the final product is delivered, so it’s actually beneficial to getting the thing done.

For more information about Chogzoo check out the following link

www.myspace.com/chogzoo