Peter Hook, Joy Division & New Order Legend On Keeping control of your career & creative freedom
Photo by Man Alive!
Are you fed up of working in an unfulfilling job, being told what to do by a boss who doesn’t appreciate you? Do you want to pursue a creative career and work with people who share your vision? That’s exactly how Peter Hook felt when he decided to form a band called Joy Division. Hooky also realized that you can keep control and publish your creative work without signing away your rights…
Joy Division, inspired by Do It Yourself punk.
Peter Hook made his success as a prominent member of legendary band Joy Division who developed a sound and style that defined the post-punk movement of the late 1970s. Joy Division has influenced scores of musicians including Moby, U2, The Killers, The Charlatans and Mogwai. Hooky had no formal musical training. But his success stemmed from; hard work, determination and a burning ambition to succeed on his terms.
Peter, your journey has been epic to say the least! So let’s start at the beginning. How did you get together to form Joy Division?
In the summer of 1977 I had a really shit job. I was working hard all week and going out at the weekends. At the time music wasn’t a very big part of my life, but I used to read the music papers and I just started reading about Punk. It really interested and excited me. Then The Sex Pistols played in Manchester at the Lesser Free Trade Hall. My mates and I, all went along and that was it. That very evening, we decided we were going to be Punks and form a band.
Sex Pistols at the Lesser Freetrade Hall. Illustration by Jed Collins
It seems naive to me now because I didn’t particularly think about music. We didn’t consider that we would have to buy instruments, learn how to play, form a group and start performing. It just came from seeing the Sex Pistols perform and going “Come on, right we’re in a group now! Yeah!”.
At the start none of you could play any instruments, so how did you go about learning and developing your skill?
Bernard had a guitar, so I had to play the bass. It was that easy. It was a complete process of elimination. I bought a book called “Palmer-Hughes Book of Rock & Roll Bass Guitar”. However, it was pretty shit. So we just started playing. The thing about performing in a group is that one rehearsal is generally worth 10 of you playing on your own. The quicker you learned the better. Because you wanted to take advantage of the things that were being offered to you, like all the gig opportunities.
Illustration by Jed Collins
So you learned from necessity. But you went beyond this and actually mastered the bass guitar. How did that feel?
I always think of incredible musicians as people like Johnny Marr, who started playing the guitar when he was seven. It’s quite unusual to find someone who doesn’t start playing until they’re twenty one, but who ends up playing in two hugely important groups in the history of music.
You’re famous for playing the bass in a very unusual manner. How did you develop your style?
I didn’t set out to be different, a lot of it wasn’t planned, the style just evolved the more I played. Personally, I think if you write and perform great music it’s impossible to fuck it up. Because great music will always live on, whether you publicise it in a national newspaper or not.
So going back to the early days, how did you feel when you performed for the first time?
I can recall getting ready for it, but I don’t remember the rest of it at all. I was extremely frightened. I can’t even remember coming off stage! However, it’s a great thing that first performance. The rest of your career you find yourself chasing after that excitement. It’s like your first drink or your first sexual experience. But you’re never going to capture that feeling you had at the very first one.
Angel and Hooky. Photo by Tash Willcocks
It’s also a confidence thing. I did a ‘Question & Answer’ session in Canada for the documentary film about Joy Division called “Control”. This kid was asking questions and he said to me “Can you tell me why for 30 years of your career, the first 15 years you never said anything and then for the last 15 you wouldn’t shut up!?” I went over and punched the fucker. But he does have a valid point. I think the thing is, everything changes. So for the first 15 years I’d say I wasn’t very confident, and for the last 15 I was.
How did you come to work with the legendary entrepreneur and record producer Tony Wilson?
I’d seen him around before, we all went to the same concerts. He looked like he was from another planet, he dressed differently to anybody I’ve ever met. Tony had started putting on concerts in the Russell Club and he asked us to perform there for a while. He then decided to make a four-group compilation record and he invited us to record two tracks.
Peter Saville’s designs defined the look of the band. Copyright Peter Saville
After that, we were looking for a proper record deal, one where somebody would actually give us money. But Rob Gretton our manager decided it would be better to keep control. He wanted to keep it based in Manchester and for us to sign with Factory records, which was Tony Wilson and Alan Erasmus’ label. Rob was impressed with Tony’s ideas, we were just kids so we didn’t know any better.
From left to right: Peter Saville, Tony Wilson and Alan Erasmus. Copyright Kevin Cummins
I don’t think we had the vision to think about the business side of being in a band. But as a manager, Rob had the foresight to realize: “Right I can really do something different with this band and we can still keep control”. Because the thing that appealed to me about Punk was that it was all about doing things your own way and not compromising. Getting what you believe in and pushing it as far as you could. Not adhering to any strict rules and no one telling you what to do.
This was quite a new way of thinking, especially for the music industry. What was the benefit of working for an independent label that operated in such an unconventional manner?
The great thing about signing to Factory Records was that no one told us what to do, there was no planning at all. If we finished the track Tony would listen to it and go “Nice, we’ll record that and put it out next week”. It wasn’t like “Here’s a calendar for next year, we can’t clash with “Girls Aloud” or any major bands, and we’ve got to go on tour after”. Most record companies would never release a single if the band haven’t got an album ready and they haven’t got a tour planned.
Tony Wilson and Peter Saville. Photo by Danny North
Tell us about your first time in a recording studio?
We were very overawed, excited, and out of our comfort zone, so we were scared. I was very lucky as a musician to have a producer like Martin Hannett. He taught us to look beyond a song, to give things depth and time that lasted and things like that. Even though the guy was extremely difficult to work with, he did give us a gift that I’ve used personally for years and years.
So given the creative freedom you got from Factory Records how long did it take for Joy Division to gain popularity?
That’s an interesting question. As Joy Division we were playing the same songs to no one, and then six months later we were playing the same songs to thousands of people, so it’s difficult to judge where it actually happened. It just grew through us playing and establishing ourselves as a live group. I remember the first time we played London we had to chip in for petrol, and we didn’t even get any money off the door because no one came. There were only seven people in the whole place! I don’t think that you can really bypass that. But as long as you put on a great performance for those that did turn up, then it’s great.
Joy Division on the road. Illustration by Jed Collins
Did you enjoy going on tour in the early days?
We didn’t tour for a while, not like bands today who tour straightaway. We were still working and just playing odd dates whenever we could get them. It’s a different industry now. We grew at a much slower rate than a lot of groups today. They just go from nothing to hundreds of gigs. We had to work it around our day jobs and that’s what paid for us to tour.
Did you feel that you benefited more from doing it that way?
I think it kept us more grounded and a bit more realistic. But there were a lot of things that kept us down to earth. We didn’t really start making money until we’d been in the group nine or ten years. Everybody thought just because we co owned the Hacienda (nightclub) that we were loaded. In fact it was the opposite. Because we had the Hacienda, that’s the reason we didn’t have any money! But I do think that it did pay off, we had a level head and weren’t spoiled.
I think things like X-Factor and Pop Idol make the music business look exciting and glamorous. But when you look at it realistically, you’re up at 7.00 am and you’ll do an interview with a major TV station, then there’s a PR event, and then a signing and several personal appearances. It’s completely different to what it seems like on the outside.
But what we did was very different because we rebelled against all of that. I joined a group because I wanted to tell everyone to fuck off and do things my way. To me that was the great thing about being in a group where you’re not being told what to do.
Click here for Part 2 Of This Interview where Peter tells us how he coped with the death of Joy Division lead singer Ian Curtis. He shares advice for upcoming musicians in the Internet age and tells us how he deals with negative reviews and criticism. Plus, don’t miss the truth behind the legendary stories of drugs and violence at the bands world famous club the Hacienda.
