Part 2: How to adapt and thrive in the changing music industry, Interview with former Guns N’ Roses and Velvet Revolver guitarist Duff McKagan
How did you work out the financial side of things?
I didn’t know how to equate business with music for a really long time. Well none of us did. We got an accountant and we started making money, and we really ruled by fear. We asked where they lived and we pretended we knew what was going on. We had an intimidation thing going on. We’d say “We’re keeping and eye on you and you better not fuck us over.”, and we were crazy enough that they would have been very foolish to fuck with us at that point. You have to remember this was a very long time ago.
Photo by Karen Mason Blair
We would get monthly statements and I couldn’t read them, and in 1994 I was pretty messed up, so I got sober by the grace of god and I had a lot of free time on my hands, because you waste a lot of time being a junkie and an alcoholic. I started going through my filing cabinets with all these monthly statements for the previous five years. I tried to read it again with a clear head. It still didn’t make sense. So I went to a business entry level class. Within the curriculum there was a section on reading financial statements. There it was all of a sudden. This veil got lifted off. I was able to put it all together and I found out that i didn’t get ripped off, so it was OK, but that really kinda peaked an interest for me continuing on with business.
“Record companies are sort of this outdated bloated machine”
Do you have a different attitude towards record labels now than when you started out?
It’s a completely different scenario now than it was then. That was 20 years ago and there was no internet. People were buying records and the cd format was just coming out. Now, record companies are sort of this outdated bloated machine, that works only if you are a well established artist.
Radiohead saw the light. If you have a large record company, what they bring to the table for you is marketing money. If they spend a million dollars on you in marketing, you’re never gonna see a dollar. People don’t sell records like they used to. You would have to sell three million copies just to pay that back, not to mention all the other expenses.
Photo by Karen Mason Blair
So Radiohead made it known this was their marketing plan. We’re gonna give our record away. Pay what you want dude. That was on the front of every business website, every news channel everywhere, and they ended up selling it for tons of dollars. It used to be years ago that a tour was promotion for your record, so the tour was the loss leader, now the record is the loss leader, the record is an advertisement for your tour.
“We do things now which were completely taboo before”
We have to be a lot smarter out here on the road with what we do and how we spend our money. How we fly, how we travel. Where we stay. The size of your crew. I sat down with the bass player of Kelly Clarksons band, and we were discussing it. We had eight crew and it was a great show. There’s no fucking doubt about that, and she had twenty five people on her crew playing the same places. Staying at the same hotels. She’s traveling much larger than us, spending a lot more money.
I’ve seen this with some young bands. They don’t seem aware that everything the record companies spends money on, its eventually coming out of their pockets
Yeah I know, we do things now which were completely taboo before. We sell our music for ring tones that’s the new way, commercials for Victoria Secret, as long as you can marry up with things that you perceive as cool. Woman’s lingerie is cool to us. That’s great. That makes sense. It’s sexy and cool and it works.
Photo by Karen Mason Blair
We do a meet and greets and that’s advertised on our fan site. You can buy a golden pass. We employ a girl that brings out the VIPs and she takes them on a tour of the venue and shows them backstage before we get there, and then we’ll go down and do this meet and greet, and Slash and I, we’ll hang out signing pictures.
Is that important for you to have that contact with the fans?
Its great you know. Slash and I would always go out by the buses and sign autographs, and I still do that, but that was the only way the fans could get contact, but now we have the meet and greet for people that can afford it, this helps us pay for the tour. Unless you’re playing arenas which we also do, you’re not making a load of money. We purposely play the UK because this is where the crowds are fucking awesome and this is the first place that really hoisted our band onto its shoulders and they were really great to us.
Illustration by Olga Shvartsur
You’ve performed and collaborated with so many talented musicians over the years how do you choose who to work with?
Well, I’ve been really fortunate. I mentioned Prince was a big influence of mine, but so was Iggy (Pop). I got a call from Iggy in 1990 in my house and I pick up the phone and it’s unmistakably his voice. It wasn’t like somebody fuckin with me, and he said, “Is this Duff?”, and I was like “Yeah.”, “Hey man. Its Iggy”. I was shaking and he said, “Would you like to play on my record?”, “Fuck yeah I’ll play on your record!”, That was probably the biggest honor I’ve ever experienced. Just playing on his record and hanging out and I became friends with him.
Photo by Karen Mason Blair
It still trips me out. Like I’ll see him somewhere like at the Mojo awards, I got to present ‘The Stooges’ with the Lifetime Achievement award, and he came bounding up on the stage and gave me a hug and I was freaking out the whole day. Also Steve Jones (Sex Pistols) when I would play guitar I would copy Steve Jones and Johnny Thunders. That’s how I learned how to play guitar, and I got to play in a band with Steve Jones. There’s nothing better in the world.
And weren’t you also a fan of the band Black Flag. What was it like working with Dez Cadena?
Yeah Dez was in my band. A lot of those guys were just a little older than me, and I’ve played with some really great guys who are my peers like Lenny Kravitz who I deem as a real musician, and I’m honored to play with guys that are real players.
Does it effect your performance?
Oh yeah. When your in a room with real players its all on. It’s fucking buckle up. You think am I good enough to play with these guys, so you have to just go for it and perform at your best.
Photo by Chiaki Nozu
So what would you say is your greatest achievement during your career?
Well I guess I’m really proud of the fact that I’m still playing. The crowds that are coming to our gigs are younger and younger. My achievement is: I’m still playing and it still feels the same as when I was 14. My little girls have grown up seeing me play and I’m Daddy full on. Like I’m typical Dad, but when they see me on stage, they know its something else. I might swear and spit but they know its real. They know, well OK, that’s part of being in a band and as a result they can pick out bands and say “That bands real, or look at that band they’re just posers.”
When you’re not touring, what’s your routine?
I don’t have a routine, I just got really re-inspired recently and I don’t know where it came from. I started taking bass lesson from these guys who are fucking heavy like jazz players and I started really learning more about my craft, and I’ve been writing all these cool riffs, so I’m applying stuff I’ve recently learned, a lot of hard finger stuff, nerdy shit you know.
“Slash, Matt and I, we’re like are our own best critics”
Essentially you’re self employed. Have you experienced any times where you procrastinate?
When I’m at home, I usually get up with the girls take them to school, go to my gym and work out. I procrastinate about other things. Not music, but business shit that I just don’t wanna take care of. There’s stuff that you just don’t wanna deal with, because you don’t have to go into an actual office, you avoid doing stuff. Sometimes I’ll rat myself out and just get on with it. I’m usually pretty good.
Do you ever have doubts about music you’ve produced?
All the time! oh yeah. Well the good thing about being in a band is you have the support of the other guys. I wouldn’t know how to be a solo artist really. I mean I have a band called ‘Loaded’ and it’s kinda like a solo project, but I still have a band. Guys that I get input from. But with Velvet Revolver, especially Slash, Matt and I, we’re like are our own best critics. We know how to criticize each other when we’re writing new material, to where it’s not hurtful, “Dude I really like that riff you know. Maybe lets try it like this, try something else”, so we all trust each other. If we bring something in no ones gonna laugh at it and we’re all gonna try and make it the best it can be.
Photo by Chiaki Nozu
Other than music what fascinates you these days?
I read a ton. Right now its non fiction. I’ve read so many books I have to go look for books I haven’t read. I’m reading a great book by Adam Hochschild who wrote “King Leopold’s Ghost” and there’s another one called “Bury The Chains”. It’s about the abolition of slaves. I also love history and old buildings. I went to Dubai which was amazing and we flew right over downtown Bagdad. That was pretty interesting.
What really drives me more than any of this stuff is my family. I realized by a lot of accounts that I shouldn’t be here at all. So for me to be a father of two beautiful little girls who are really great human beings I don’t know how, but they’re awesome and my wife is amazing. If I didn’t have that support then it would be worthless.
“Don’t listen to anybody else, just do what feels right”
What advice would you give people starting bands today?
There are way too many lessons to pick one, but the most important thing, if you’re a young person just starting out, is don’t listen to anybody else, just do what feels right, tune in to your instincts.
Great advice. Thanks Duff for your time and candor. It’s been an absolute pleasure talking to you.
Interview by Angel Greenham
Links
www.facebook.com/duff-mckagan
www.duff-loaded.com
www.velvetrevolver.com
Illustration www.redbubble.com/people/olechka
Photography www.karenmasonblair.com
Photography www.chiakinozu.com
Additional photography;
Andrei Zarnoveanu
Carol Rodriguez
Michele Cilento
